Who owns your image?

[pandora_parrot]

What do you get when you mix a bunch of traumatized, stressed-out people with a ton of alcohol and a failure to communicate? You get a lot of yelling and hurt feelings. i.e. DRAMUH...

Although the party yesterday was awesome, it ended on a bit of a sour note with a bit of a conflict regarding privacy, property, and photography. I think the situation was badly handled by all involved and could have been bettered handled if people were A) sober, B) able to communicate more clearly with one another and C) not stressed out or traumatized about a million other things.

Although the situation is now more or less resolved, it lead to some interesting discussion on the nature of photography, privacy, and related concepts. Various topics were discussed, such as, "Who owns your likeness?" and "Is it assault to take a photo of an unwilling subject?" Although we pretty much determined the answers to these things in the legal sense, I felt that we had not fully explored all of the avenues of thought regarding the answers to these questions in the social sense.

To give you an example of what I mean, the paparazzi that follow celebrities around are well within their rights legally (at least sometimes), but socially, they are performing the unethical act of taking away a celebrity's privacy. One might describe them as the scum of the earth in this sense.

Socially, it is vital for reporters and journalists to take photos of situations and people as part of their freedom of the press to present information to the public. The law also supports this social rule.

The situation we had was nothing like any of this as the people involved were a hell of a lot more reasonable, but I think it's an interesting philosophical question. Who owns your image? What is an appropriate response to an uncooperative photographer? What about to a cooperative one?

So... I thought I'd take a poll to see what people think about this. I'd also love to read your thoughts on the topic. Please explain your answers in comments, if you like. I will not be responding, however, because of my closeness to the actual situation. I am still intrigued by the general/abstract question at hand, though. And keep in mind that I'm not talking about the legal realities/ramifications of any of this. Just the social realities/rules/mores/etc.

btw: The multiple choice of "reasonable reaction" is assuming you've asked the person to delete/destroy the image, and they refuse.

[Poll #1492015]

Comments

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

The question assumes that you've asked already and have been refused.

I'm interested in how people behave when the other party stops being reasonable, to evaluate the reaction of people to an extreme example of a situation.

[weirdodragoncat.livejournal.com]

Ok. I think I would have preferred if that had been made more clear.

Even knowing that though, I still am disturbed that most of the 'options' are either violent or hostile.

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

Okay. So assuming that the photographer refuses to delete the photographs, what more can/would *you* do?

[weirdodragoncat.livejournal.com]

barring doing 'nothing'...I don't see as there *are* any other *viable* options.

Doing anything else would be potentially legally actionable and no matter how much I might not have wanted my picture taken at that moment, I'm not willing to go to jail over it.

[uncledark.livejournal.com]

Over a photo? Not likely.

I suppose that, if the photo of you in that situation would lead inevitably to serious injury or damage to yourself or others, and there was no other way to prevent that damage than using violence against the photographer, and if the violence of the action was proportional to the damage to be done by the photo, then sure. But how often are you going to be reasonably sure that all these are true?

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

I see that I should have made that more clear after writing the question. Unfortunately, I don't thinky ou can edit polls.

[weirdodragoncat.livejournal.com]

maybe not, but you *can* edit the post to clarify that point.

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

I put this in yesterday at some point: "btw: The multiple choice of "reasonable reaction" is assuming you've asked the person to delete/destroy the image, and they refuse."

Can you suggest an improvement?

[weirdodragoncat.livejournal.com]

I must have missed that bit.

and no...I don't know that that could be worded any better. I just don't like the *other* choices listed (I'll admit that I can't think of any other options that are not violent/hostile but are still proactive though)

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

*nods* Exactly my problem. These are the only responses I can think of to a photographer that is being uncommunicative and unreasonable.

[pouchedfox.livejournal.com]

who do they work for? who are they selling the picture to? Is there someone else we can talk to? Can we explain it in a better way, a different approach, or understand the persons reason for not aggreeing and find a way to satisfy that (ie compensate for used film maybe).

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

who do they work for?
You don't know. They may be independent.

who are they selling the picture to?
You have no idea if they even *are* selling the picture.

Is there someone else we can talk to?
No. This is a lone individual.

Can we explain it in a better way, a different approach, or understand the persons reason for not aggreeing and find a way to satisfy that (ie compensate for used film maybe).
Assume they're being completely unreasonable and refusing to communicate at all. What is a reasonable reaction on your part?

[pouchedfox.livejournal.com]

if this is at a con, theres policies about that. If they are hanging out on private property, let the property owner know your not happy that someone is taking pictures. See if theres something you can do for them. Talk to them find out about them and what they are doing, the more information you have, the more possibilities are available. If they really are just posting it on a personal blog, it might not be worth worrying about vs the local newspaper.

[pouchedfox.livejournal.com]

sometimes just talking to people and trying to connect with them can change their attitude. (I try to use psychology/diplomacy)

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Communication is absolutely vital in these situations.