IRC, Second Life, and other online socialization tools.

[pandora_parrot]

I really don't get online socialization tools.

Whenever I log into these things, I generally just feel lost in the shuffle. In World of Warcraft and other MMORPGs, I don't really meet anyone else and I wind up playing the game by myself. When I do that, I generally find that I'm paying $15 a month to play a really crappy single player game with a crappy plot. I prefer my video games to be epic adventures with awesome storylines, since I mostly play them for the storyline anyways.

I've jumped onto IRC a few times, but with a few exceptions, I just don't get it. There's lots of people on there talking about things that I have no interest in. If I act like a lunatic and try to entertain people, I can enjoy it for a few hours, but the novelty of that quickly dies away, and I generally don't see the same people on there again, so any relationship I might have established goes away. I do use IRC to communicate with folks I know, so if I know someone IRL and they are always in a chat room, I'll visit that chat room, but otherwise, I just don't get it.

Forums, BBSes, and LJ communities are similar. I'm okay at lurking in forums and posting from time to time, but I find it very difficult to maintain an interest in online forums for very long, or to maintain much of a presence there. I never feel like I have time to read all of the threads going on, and the ones I do read seem mostly inane and uninteresting to me, so I don't really have that much to contribute.

Then there's Second Life. I've horsed around with that a bit, but I still don't get it. I'm all alone in a world full of people that are making things using a convoluted interface. I've tried playing games on there, but it feels pointless. I get nothing out of it, since your character is already practically a god. I've tried snowboarding and flying vehicles and stuff, but since there's no limitation on 3D motion, it really seems quite pointless. The art in there is pretty cool, but since I don't really see anything to do at my skill level in the game, it really doesn't seem worth it to learn the difficult tools to figure out how to make anything. This is doubly true since I don't know anybody on the service to share anything that I might happen to create with.

I've tried EVE online, but it doesn't capture my interest. I've tried City of Heroes, but after getting to about level 10 with my character, I lose interest. I was actually in the beta test for Ultima Online and found it completely strange and pointless. I also played Meridian 59, Dungeons and Dragons Online, a MUCK type thing here and there, and a few others. None of them could capture my interest for longer than a month.

The only MMORPG that ever captured my interest for longer than a month was Earth and Beyond, and that was mostly because I really liked the exploration elements of that game. I got to visit really exotic sectors of space and land on interesting planets and stuff. I also really liked the space combat and things. It didn't have much going on, but it was enough to actually interest me. Otherwise, these things just have no draw to me.

Am I missing something? What's the draw of online communication and games? How do people socialize online?

I suppose that part of why these services don't work for me is that I tend not to have much interest in socializing with people that are outside my social circle. If I meet someone new, it's generally because I've met them through an existing member of my social circle, or I have already determined that they are "tribe" in some sense. Weird geeky queer poly women, especially transgender women, don't tend to scare me much, but everyone else pretty much freaks me out if I don't meet them through some existing member of my social circle or activity that I already am involved in. IRC requires me to meet people with absolutely no pre-established context, as do all of these online games.

With that in mind, I have tried a few times to get involved in online things that other people are involved in. I joined some IRC channels that a friend of mine joined, but find that I only talk to the people I've met IRL. I joined WoW with a friend of mine, but she already had several top level characters and was just dragging me along. I joined Second Life with the same person, and talked with her a bit, but without her around, just had no interest in the service.

*shrugs* I suppose these things just aren't for me, but I see so many folks getting involved with them, and frankly, there are bits and pieces of them that do intrigue me. But for the most part, I just can't seem to get myself to care about them.

Thoughts?

Comments

[pazi-ashfeather.livejournal.com]

As far as the games are concerned, I have the same problem (at least to some degree). Few of them are terribly rewarding to me; the types of videogames I enjoy may have a multiplayer component but they're often not social about it (strategy games).

I get very little out of Facebook; it's vaguely uncomfortable for me to be really open there, being such a visible environment. I seldom bother with forums or chats at all, although I often enjoy *browsing* a forum about something that interests me. Livejournal is a bit comfier, Twitter is alright (I use it for important status updates and short, amusing things I want to share with everybody).

Ultimately I really only engage a lot with those people that can sustain a lengthy IM conversation with me, or who I've met in real life. In-person is best, IM is acceptable, but realtime is pretty critical it seems. Any other interaction I have with them is extra.

The only exceptions are people on LJ who I like to keep in touch with; I have a few people on my friendslist, ranging from actual friends to acquaintances that I'm unlikely to meet in person, yet for whatever reason it's nice to know what's going on with them and offer feedback, or hear what they have to say to my updates.

Facebook, Twitter...I'm just going through the motions, and it's worth the slight trouble because in both cases there are people I'd never hear from otherwise, who I'd prefer not to lose track of.

As far as the tribalism thing goes...that's a human tendency, I think. I don't avoid such people in my own sphere (indeed, they represent a plurality of all the people I know) but I do make a point of socializing with people outside that group -- I've met enough other weird geeky queer poly trans women that I no longer assume we have enough in common to get along solely on that basis. At least a few of my valued friends are people with whom I share very few labels in common; the person I've known longer than anything has virtually nothing in common with me (different races, neurotypes, orientations, gender identities, social habits and interests), but we have so much history as friends in spite of this that it's hard to shake it, even now that we're so far away from each other.

[forest-rose.livejournal.com]

Thoughts - largely relief that it's not just me! I'm the same with live role play - I can't just turn up and meet people and find plot the way some people can.

[ellie-l.livejournal.com]

The thing I've been using Second Life for recently is as kind of a virtual museum. There are lots of recreations of places on there that's neat to run around in. Also, the SciLands are pretty cool. I don't so much use it for a social thing, though...

[ellie-l.livejournal.com]

Also, I have a feeling that in the semi-near future (say, a decade or so) that we're going to start seeing a SecondLife type world overlayed on top of the real world through augmented reality. It's at that point that I think I will start finding a social aspect to virtual worlds (aka hanging out with your friends like you do now, but having god-like powers in the virtual layer on top of first reality)

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

Huh. I've never heard of the SciLands. Honestly... I don't really know what all is in there. :)

[ellie-l.livejournal.com]

I was introduced to SciLands while at a physics conference a while back. Someone was doing a talk about on-line learning and as part of it was discussing a virtually made nuclear reactor that you can go to on one of the SciLands (complete with interactive experiments you can run while there). They also have a big globe, a mock-up of a human ear that you can play with, and so on. I highly recommend checking it out.

[darksidex.livejournal.com]

Re: Second Life, in my experience the people who enjoy it most, and stick around the longest, are the people who create stuff in it. They tend to socialize and explore more, because they can meet other creators and see other creations (for inspiration and such).

Pure consumers (people who explore and buy but do not create) are far more numerous, but tend to vanish after a while.


Re: IRC, the only time I've ever enjoyed IRC is when I have something in common with the people I'm communicating with. Freenode is great for this, since it tends toward channels related to particular open source projects; and in many of these, plenty of idle chatting still occurs, not just technical talk.

I also hang out in channels created to reflect specific real-life groups; for example, the channel for my university's Linux User Group. As an alumni, I see people come in whom I've never met, but we have the common bond of the group, and that helps with conversation.

No real point here, just some observations :)


Also, in my opinion, anyone trying to actually use the in-world Second Life tools is *insane*. My wife does this, and I don't understand how she keeps her sanity. And, of course, several things *can't* be created in-world (sculpted prims, audio files, animations, textures). I use:

qavimator for animations. I'm also *technically* a developer on this project; I haven't committed any code to it in a *very* long time, though :(

blender for sculpted and non-sculpted prims (jass for the former, prim.blender for the latter)

For textures, the gimp. For sound, Audacity.

For scripting, which is my favorite thing to do in Second Life (or, well, anywhere else), emacs, lslint and a modified copy of lslmake, although I can't find the old page for lslmake anywhere...

Of course, none of these programs are particularly easy to learn. I'm just saying, the in-world tools are *painful*, and only a masochist would use them (as evidence, my wife prefers the in-world building tools over blender :P ).

[voiceofanangel.livejournal.com]

I've been looking for some good RPGs with a decent storyline. I don't want to get tied up in the social circles and the demands to conform my life to a game, nor do I want to pay the $15 a month to pressure me into playing more than i should.

What games do you find enjoyable?

[paradox-puree.livejournal.com]

I really liked the storyline of Knights of the Old Republic. Haven't really played many RPGs since that one, tbh.

[voiceofanangel.livejournal.com]

Speaking of which: making friends on these games is similar to making friends in a chatroom or on LJ. It gives you the ability to have superficial, casual acquaintances, and allow yourself to think that you're popular/loved/good at relationships. A lot of the ppl that I know that play WoW hardly have a social life to speak of. All their friends live in their computer and would never speak to them again if they missed 1 raid. Bah. The internet, as I'm sure you know, allows us the ability to show the best parts of ourselves while concealing the parts we'd rather ignore. I'm really quite horrible at this "friend" thing IRL. Online, ppl rarely get upset if I disappear into a bubble for months at a time. IRL, ppl get offended (I know I would).

[blackberry74.livejournal.com]

...so I'm not the only one who gets bored with video games after a while?

I've always been a poor loser, so I thought that was my issue. Hmm. Maybe it's what you were talking about too...something to consider.

[mantic-angel.livejournal.com]

When I was younger, I fit in to these a lot better. They were my community and my social networks, because I didn't have any other (at any given time, I'd have 1 physical friend and 1-2 online friends, plus my online communities)

I made friends in DAOC and Guild Wars that persist through today. We talked constantly about life, learned to work together and communicate effortlessly - three characters of text could speak paragraphs between us. We still have little in-jokes from some of the more exciting moments of the game.

The sheer challenge of coordinating a half-dozen strangers, each with different personalities, skill levels, and characters, to handle a challenge... it was a wonderful chance for me to learn more about socialization and leadership, in an environment that was safe for me.

These days, WOW is mostly something to do to "veg out" - it's like throwing on an episode of bad TV. It keeps me "doing something" without having to think, and I can socialize and meet people. I found WOW was actually pretty awful for meeting people, and only really socialized with people I already knew. WOW has shifted a bit too much in to "mainstream" for me to really enjoy - it's average demographic just doesn't quite work for me, for some reason. That said, it was still fun to kill orcs mindlessly while chatting with Tricia, Amber, and Marie. And coordinating to handle dungeons was a lot of fun still :)



tl;dr version: They're communities, just like the rest of your social network. They're just done offline. You might as well wonder "what's the point of Elly's Portland Social Circle" - I hardly expect you to join that and be an active participant since you already have your own social circle :)

[nytemuse.livejournal.com]

I do WoW for escapism and stress relief, and because I have a series of friends who I can generally find online most of the time. But I agree, when there aren't folk to party with, it gets boring much faster. I only joined initially because someone I wanted to chat with who lived in Ohio was only on there, never on IM. When my toons were low-level, my Guildmates would help me level up. It is easier to find groups when middle-to-higher level.

I do IRC for meetings, mostly. The groups I'm in aren't local, and IRC is the most accessible group chat. But I don't do the random room slumming thing either, only when there's a defined topic. And sometimes, the meeting pace is too fast to read everything, which is annoying.

[nytemuse.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, and SL just makes me shudder. I have friends who, again, are only on there and nowhere else, but I can't even be bothered unless it's an emergency or I really need to find them.

[tarathene.livejournal.com]

We grew up on IRC. To us, it's "easier" to communicate, meet people, and then get to know them through that specific medium than most others. We've always thought that it is mostly due to familiarity with how everything works, but we've been learning this year that a lot more of the reason is because we don't have to let people know that there are things wrong with us that cause issues. Of course, once we do get to know people (or a specific 'place' online) we usually open up more.

Offline in general we have frequent moments of "must run, must hide" that we can't seem to avoid. They hit us especially when dealing with either very uncomfortable or very comfortable but new situations. Freaking out and hiding on the stairs is usually somewhere on the list of things that happen when we're actually starting to get comfortable with someone. Online we can hide that much more easily, at least until we feel ready for people to know.

When it comes to gaming we have always leaned towards the activities that we can do alone while still exploring the virtual worlds others put so much work into. We are very bad at playing games with people we don't know, and almost as bad playing them with people we do know, but who have already been there/done that. At times playing WoW we've felt like we're on some sort of guided tour, which makes us become quickly uninterested.

SL's primary function to us seems to be either a chat room where you can show off your art skills (or your taste in clothes/avatars/etc), or an art gallery where you have to deal with other people trying to talk to you. Neither appeals overly much to us, so we have stayed away almost all the time. MUCKs and such for us end up being places we can only handle wandering around exploring on our own and playing with the various scripted toys or, when we're in a really rare mental state, somewhere to do kinky stuff via text that isn't even possible offline. Then it just turns into IRC with a much more cumbersome client, though.