pandora_parrot: (Default)
I just read about some presumably cisgender men invading the dyke march this year. Understandably, there were some trans guys upset that cis men were not welcome, but trans guys are. They see it as a challenge to their gender identity, like they're not "really" guys and thus are welcome to join the dyke march.

I can't comment fully on the politics of this, but I think there is some sense in creating "anyone but cis-guy" spaces, and it all centers around male privilege.

First of all, to those that aren't on the up and up for privilege politics, the idea is that when you are a member of a majority/oppressor class for some characteristic, you have various privileges that you may or may not be aware of. It's not a *bad* thing to be this way, and just because you're a minority in one class doesn't mean you can't be a majority in another class. It's just more or less a fact of life. What's bad is pretending it doesn't exist and being defensive when called out on it.

What exactly is privilege? It's the ability to not have to think about or deal with certain things that people of a particular minority group have to deal with. White people don't have to deal with the shit people of color have to deal with, and are often not aware of how much shit people of color get. Rich people don't realize all of the nuances of being poor. Cis people don't realize just how much their assumptions about gender oppress trans people. etc. etc.

Now, these are, of course, blanket statements, and they are generally true, but not always, and certainly not in the same way with all people. Some majority-class members have more or less privilege than others, based on a wide assortment of things such as life experiences, upbringing, membership in other minority classes, etc. But as a general rule, this is fairly true.

As a member of a minority class, privilege can be annoying, and more-over *exhausting.* It's really annoying to hear the same tripe, the same bullshit, and the same crap over and over again. It's really annoying being the token representative of your minority class all of the time, having to explain to people why what they say and do is fucked up. Frequently, you just wish people would google this shit and stop being stupid. But the unfortunate thing about privilege is that it's usually invisible to the person that has it, so they don't even know that they're being offensive or insensitive or whatever.

So members of minority classes often go out of their way to create spaces, sometimes, that specifically exclude members of the majority class. It's a way to create a space where they can gather and be together without having to participate in the same constant-education-bullshit that they have to deal with all the rest of the time. And it's more than just education, but the fact that this privilege crap has been used time and again to hurt and oppress the members of the minority class. It can be triggery to experience it, and it's nice when you can go into a space where it is far less likely to experience it.

So an event like "dyke march" is a great space for queer women to create a space where they can exist in solidarity with less male privilege than usual. There is freedom and comfort and safety in being in a space that is filled with people that are unlikely to be as filled with privilege as normal. It's not perfect, but it's a big step.

So... That's great for queer cis-women, but what about transgender people of all genders? What about the question at the beginning about the inclusion of trans men in spaces like this?

Well... All that other stuff explained... it seems to me that transgender eople have a particularly unique perspective on male privilege. Many, if not most, of us have seen both sides of the coin to some degree. We know what it is like to have male privilege and then have it taken away, or to gain it after having not had it for most of our life.

As a result, I'd like to believe that we're all a little more sensitive and self-aware when it comes to our own unique experiences with male privilege. Trans women being able to recognize the remnants of male privilege from our pasts, and trans men able to recognize the privileges that they now enjoy. I hope that with this awareness comes an increased ability to accept and be challenged on our beliefs, behaviors, etc.. I'd like to believe that we are "safe" for cisgender women to be around without having to worry too much about us being offensive, insensitive, or whatever as a result of our experiences with male privilege.

So it makes sense to me that transgender people of all genders are included in a march focused on the experiences of women, while cisgender men might be excluded. Because I believe that our unique experiences of male privilege make us far less likely to be problematic than cisgender men who have not generally had as much opportunity to explore their experiences with male privilege.

Certainly, these characteristics have proved to be true within my experiences. When it comes to sexism and issues around male/female dynamics, cisgender women and transgender people seem to "get it" far more often than cisgender men. It's a rare cisgender male that I find that accepts his male privilege and knows how to avoid being problematic towards women. On the other hand, it's a rare cisgender woman or transgender person that *doesn't* get male privilege and male/female social oppression dynamics.

I've certainly met my fair share of sexist people in all gender combinations. One of the most sexist people I've ever met, in fact, was a cisgender woman that claimed that women should not "work men's jobs" because she believes it takes away the opportunity of men to support their families. In college, I wrote a long letter to the school newspaper calling out a presumably cisgender woman for her sexist comments regarding the decline of chivalry in men towards women.

Excluding cisgender men doesn't exclude all male privilege, and it keeps out some really awesome feminist-type guys that *get* and *understand* their male privilege. But when you've got little else to go by, it's not a completely horrible way to keep the usual guys with their unexamined privilege out.

Case in point... the presumably cis guys in the dyke march? Standing in the way, taking photos of the topless dykes, pointing, laughing and giggling. You know... acting in ways that demonstrate their ignorance of how their behavior hurts women. Demonstrating their male privilege.
pandora_parrot: (anger)

Z Budapest, you disgust me.

Just stamp that boot harder. My face isn't numb enough yet.

Gah... I just write a post about compassion and then someone does something like this to enrage me.

I guess what I have to realize is that compassion doesn't mean you don't get angry. Maybe it's just what you do with that anger.
pandora_parrot: (annoyed)
The last nine days haven't been terribly kind to us transgender folk.

Several pieces of media have come out showing various degrees of ignorance on the topic.

Sure... it's not a physical attack... But attacks on our self-esteem certainly contribute to the rampant problem of suicide in our community, as well as contributing to the negative stereotypes that lead to us being refused medical treatment, being harassed or attacked, being denied employment, etc.

If you're curious, this commercial is how to do ads featuring this community in a way that is not offensive.
pandora_parrot: (Default)
I watched Milk last night. It's the story of San Francisco City Supervisor Harvey Milk, the first openly gay elected representative in California.

A few things struck me as I watched the film.

First, that this man and the women and men of his era were literally dying and bleeding, fighting very simply for their right to exist. Our modern day struggle for same-sex marriage rights or employment non discrimination really doesn't compare to their struggle. This is simply the tail end of our long struggle to gain acceptance in mainstream society as a normal and valid part of it. We're cleaning up the remaining vestiges of discrimination that continue to exist. They were fighting for their lives.

That's not to say that our modern day struggles are not important. Rather, that the struggles of the past were far more fundamental. It would have been hard to get excited about marriage and employment equality when you could get arrested, beaten, and killed for holding your partner's hand in public or having sex in the privacy of your own home.

Another thing struck me. It was something that Harvey Milk said to Dan White at one point, about how this struggle for civil rights isn't just some issue. It's our lives. He pointed out that three of the four lovers that he had had in his life had attempted or committed suicide.

This... hasn't changed. Sure, there's less oppression in general. But it's most emphatically not gone from our society. We are *STILL* dying. We are still killing ourselves. We are still hiding who we are in fear of a society that threatens us sometimes with no less than death.

I think about my own relationships and friends. The vast majority of them have several mental or emotional problems. Many have attempted suicide at some point in their lives.

I commented, "Being gay is a mental disorder... generator."

We are a group of people literally screaming for nothing more than the right to live our lives. I don't know how, amidst all this pain, suffering, and death, there could be even one person that could stand against us. How could any human being with even a shred of empathy hear our story of love and pain and do anything but love us? I don't understand it. I don't understand how anti-gay bigots can sleep at night. I don't know how they can possibly justify their actions.

And then I remember the fact that my own sister, ex-spouse, ex-mother-in-law, step-grand-mother, step-father, aunt, and others stood in my way to prevent me from gaining access to my own mother's funeral until all of the "normal people" were gone and I was given my own private half-hour with her.

They rationalize and justify their actions through whatever means they can possibly dream up. We queers are sick. Messed up in the head. Confused. It's not about the gay, it's about how our behavior has changed. They dream up a thousand excuses and rationalizations and sleep content in the knowledge that their God will reward them well for holding true to their convictions.

Watching movies like Milk, reading the reaction of the conservative right to the prop 8 decision, and remembering the actions of my own biological "family", I find myself disgusted with the state of humanity. I find myself filled with anger and rage at the vile and contemptuous evil that lies in the shriveled hearts of these people. I want to scream at them. Exact violence upon them. Show them just how much they have hurt me and all others like me. Make them understand it by whatever means necessary.

Unfortunately, anger alone will never fix this problem. You can't defeat hatred with more hatred. And thus we need both anger and diplomacy in the struggle to gain our right to exist as valid human beings.

This is as much about demonstrating our power to the world as it is teaching them gently that we are human beings just like them.

The sad truth is that we must continually go out and educate the masses even while they bash our faces in.

Harvey Milk and the activists of his day won us rights that today I simply take for granted. That I can be publicly and openly in a same-sex relationship is something that barely registers to me most days. That I don't have to fear police bashing down my door in the middle of the night to arrest me for "unnatural sex acts" is something I don't even consider.

But then... when I hear about things like prop 8 and what not... there's still something inside me that feels very... WRONG at the idea that anyone could possibly ever have a *vote* on whether or not I am a valid and worthwhile human being. I really liked the way Judge Walker put it in his decision: "fundamental rights may not be submitted to [a] vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.”"

Amen. Hopefully this continues to be true.
pandora_parrot: (Default)
There's really not a lot of lead actors that are people of color out there. People of color tend to be prominent in supporting roles or villain roles.

So how much does it suck that Paramount pictures was basically white-washed the heroes of the Asian focused "Avatar: The Last Airbender"? According to various articles around the net, the entire lead cast is all white in an adaptation of a cartoon whose characters are mostly not.

It looked like a cool movie, and I was looking forward to seeing it, but with the controversy about the races of the actors hired, it seems like it would be supporting racism to pay money to see it. I'll catch it on Netflix or something one of these days, I suppose.

It's frustrating, because I'll bet the racism involved here is mostly unconscious. It's stuff that goes unchecked, ideas that are assumed to be true until they are examined and recognized as the biased social programming that we all have.

Face it. If you're a part of western society, you're a part of a system that instills racist values and biases. If you get defensive and ignore people of color when they're telling you that you're being racist, congratulations, you're fitting the stereotype perfectly.

Related, I find this youtube video of two black children selecting their favorite doll amongst several of different skin color to be incredibly disgusting and disheartening.


Jun. 11th, 2010 01:57 am
pandora_parrot: (sexy)
My dear friend Tobi has recently published her first pornographic film: Doing it Ourselves.

It's an award-winning movie by trans-women about trans-women. It's a wonderful and positive portrayal of trans female sexuality that is sorely lacking throughout mainstream media and pornography.

I got to see it a few days ago and I have to say that it is quite good.

If you want to support an awesome director and help her create more awesome works like this in the future, you should head over to her website and buy a copy of her video!

This has been your (un) paid advertisement. We now return you to your regularly scheduled livejournal.


Jan. 27th, 2010 01:28 pm
pandora_parrot: (Default)
I bought a whole bunch of posters from the Crimethinc Workers Collective recently.

This is your life
Gender Subversion (front)
Gender Subversion (back)
Beauty Subversion (front)
Beauty Subversion (back)

Their manufacture is similar to newspaper, and they are about the size of a folded out newspaper or small poster for your wall.

I bought 100 of each to give to folks, since I believe in the messages in here and wanted to spread them. So if you want any, let me know, and I'll see about getting you some. No charge, of course.
pandora_parrot: (Default)
This is making the rounds: is a dream a lie if it don’t come true / or is it something worse

Before you click, I must warn you that's it's some pretty seriously fucked up stuff. Seriously triggery for a trans person. I'm going to summarize behind the cut and discuss a bit, but before you move on, click the link, and then read on.
Read more... )
pandora_parrot: (Default)
When it comes to sexual orientation, one's love is political. To go out in public, hand in hand with a lover of the same apparent sex, is subversive and a political act. It is a defiant statement that you will not allow your love to be treated as less than different-sex love. To get married with a person of the same sex is a further act of defiance against society, claiming the right to be equal with different-sex couples in the eyes of the world. Doing these things can be dangerous in some environments, inciting bigots to violence and anger.

But when it comes to mundane things like going shopping at the grocery store, climbing down at the climbing gym, or simply using the bathroom, you're not being political. To the rest of the world, you're just another woman or man, a person that is going about their life, with few, if any, thought given to your sexual orientation. Even the most bigoted person in the world is likely not going to care if you're picking apples from the same section of the grocery store as them, because they probably have no idea that you're not straight.

But for a transgender person, this is not true. Transgender people face invalidation of their genders in practically everything we do. For us, the simple act of going shopping for groceries is a dangerous, subversive act that may incite violence and anger in bigots. To simply use the restroom is risky business. What if I'm outted as trans? What if someone finds out? What if they deny me my gender identification? For something like shopping, the worst you might get is harassment. But for restroom use, or worse, locker room use at the gym, being read as trans can have the consequence of getting your banned from the facility or business that you are in. It can result in legal actions being taken against you. And it can absolutely result in physical violence.

For the transgender person, one's entire life is an act of defiance against societal norms. It's a political, subversive act, denying deeply held ideas about gender and demanding the right to be equal with others of one's gender identity.

I just read about blogger Jeremy Hooper and his partner getting married and having Martha Stewart's Wedding magazine cover their wedding. And I'm definitely happy for the couple and happy that GLB folks have made another step into being treated as ordinary by the mainstream.

But at the same time, I find myself wishing for a moment like that in my life, for my community. What will true and full acceptance of transgender people look like? What will the little steps on the way there be? The journey is starting, with transgender characters popping up on TV more and more, and more people coming out of the closet, with more and more activity going on breaking the stereotypes and showing trans people as ordinary. But it's only just beginning, and has a long way to go yet.

Unlike cisgender GLB folks, some transgender people can never "turn it off" and look normal. What will the acceptance of such people look like? What will the day look like when even the passable trans people no longer have to fear being "found out?" When we can all be open about ourselves or just experience our mundane lives without worrying that it might result in getting fired, murdered, or worse.

I'd like to see that sort of thing in a magazine some day.
pandora_parrot: (Default)
Reflecting today on the nature of wealth, class, and how your family's social class changes your opportunities in the world.

Read more... )
pandora_parrot: (contemplative)
Lately, I've been seeing more and more really neat projects that people work on. Electronics projects that people have accomplished. Neat things they did with bits of hardware. Hacks where someone fashioned a hand-held device for playing console games from one video game system or another. All of the fantastic and amazing projects I saw at Burning Man. Beautiful bits of wood working, painting, etc. Abstract vehicles made into snails, couches, ducks, sailing ships, etc. All very very neat stuff.

But one thing that always strikes me about a lot of these things is how much money it requires. Getting access to the tools needed to make many of these things is VERY expensive. And the consumable supplies required are also often quite expensive. Getting into model airplanes has really showed me that. It costs a ton of money just to have the tools I need to actually work with these planes, let alone buy all the little parts I need to get a plane in the air and keep it there. Hobbies like model airplanes, electronics, metal works, etc. require a lot of money to get into, and quite a bit to keep going, as they require high costs in parts, etc.

I've also been realizing how expensive it is just to learn something artsy/craftsy/hacky/etc. You have the initial cost of entry where you buy your basic tools, and then you have to buy consumables for creating projects that you are guaranteed to break/destroy/use improperly, since you're going to be learning. Even things like painting and drawing have a cost to entry and maintenance costs to buy supplies. And what if you buy all the supplies to do something new, and find out you have no interest in it? That's expensive too!

It strikes me that many of these things that so many people in my current peer group take for granted are heavily influenced by class privileges. One friend had parents with sufficient money to buy them computer equipment that they could play with from the time they were 6 years old. Another had a father that had a PhD in mechanical engineering. Another grew up in a culture with lots of access to supplies and knowledge for various crafts like making clothing, wood-carving, etc.

Although I had perfectionism and such standing in my way of learning many of these things as a child, I also had limited access to the funds and knowledge required for these things. My father was a high-school drop-out, and my mother had an associates degree in accounting. Although there were many things they could teach me, they tended to be more practical things like how to maintain your car and stuff like that. We spent most of our money on education for my sister and I, so we had very little left over. There were a few times where we needed to go on welfare for a while, to make ends meet. Most of our clothes, toys, etc. were purchased at garage sales. Everything we got was used, from cars to bikes to clothes to silverware, etc. Going out to eat meant going to McDonald's. Christmas was about the only time that we "splurged" and bought completely "pointless" things.

By going to college, moving to California, and getting an awesome job, much of this has changed for me. My social network includes many brilliant and knowledgeable people and my income leaves a lot of room for discretionary spending. Many of the things that I've gotten into of late have only been possible due to these changes. Skateboarding, painting, rock climbing, model airplanes, etc. I've learned more about things I can do with computers and software because my social network now includes people I can talk to about such things. I can do things like build a model airplane because I know people that have ideas on how to do such things, and I have the money to buy the tools/supplies required..

Sure, there are other solutions to obtaining many of these things, but they tend to require social connections. Learning to scavenge for free or cheap tools/supplies for learning these sorts of arts/crafts/hacks/etc is a skill in and of itself. And frankly, you're still relying on being at least somewhat connected to someone with knowledge or money. Not everyone has such people in their lives or has any way of learning how to get access to such things.

It seems that some forms of creativity and know-how are a luxury that only the rich can afford. Or the socially well-connected.

It strikes me that there's something else going on here, as well. For example, creating one's own clothes and such is something that should be cheaper than going out and buying things. But in this consumerist culture, skills such as these are perhaps growing more rare amongst people. People are encouraged to buy a new thing, instead of making a new thing. And as that knowledge diminishes, it perhaps becomes more difficult to cheaply get into such things.

I'm not sure. I'm definitely seeing some really interesting patterns here, but it's not quite clear exactly what's going on yet.

What's your take on the connection between socio-economic class and creative skills?
pandora_parrot: (Default)
I've posted about this before, but since that privilege meme is going around, I thought I'd say something about it again. Frankly, it drives me crazy to see highly privileged people running around claiming that they're not privileged or that privilege doesn't exist. And it surprises the hell out of me that they actually have the audacity to make these claims despite all the evidence to the contrary. And then I get even MORE surprised by how EMOTIONAL people seem to get when "accused" of having privilege.

Let me put this simply:Read more... )
pandora_parrot: (Default)
I don't belong to mainstream American culture. I don't watch TV all day. I don't pray to Jesus as my god. I don't believe in any of the mainstream western religions. I don't buy into a lot of mainstream western culture.

I've found myself a part of various subcultures that seem to refer to themselves as "counter-cultural". Self described witches, pagans, shamans, hippies, ravers, etc. Much of this culture seems to be about gathering tools together from varieties of sources and using it to create your own manifestation of spirituality and personal expression. To create a personal image of clothing and outfits and home decor and spirituality that comes from a variety of sources, most especially Hindu, Buddhist, and various Native American sources.

I go down to the Haight and see merchants selling items with traditional clothing and tools and religious icons of these cultures. They are often being sold to white people by people of color. The notion is that, in purchasing these images and elements, you are adding "exotic, new age, hippie" decor to your home/life/spiritual practice/whatever.

From what I can see... new age, hippie, pagan shops are predominantly focused on repackaging and selling the cultures of peoples from across the globe, from Native Americans to Indians to ancient Celts, and on. I believe that this is the definition of cultural appropriation.

This puts me in a difficult spot. I have wound up in a culture where, effectively, stealing other people's cultural elements is considered completely normal. Yet I am not completely oblivious to the way that this culture's appropriation of other cultures is harmful to those cultures.

So how do I navigate this? Do I simply close my eyes to it and embrace this white privileged appropriation of other cultures? Or do I avoid it completely and find myself in a situation where I have no culture? Or is there a middle ground?

It's something that I am constantly thinking about, and I do various things to try to... avoid doing a great deal of appropriation of other cultures. Instead, I try to learn from other cultures as much as possible and, taking what I can from those cultures, create something that is novel enough that it does not resemble any other culture.

Simple ways that I do this is that I refuse to have any icons of any deities that I have not become personally familiar with. While out shopping for tapestries yesterday, I was offered tapestries that had images of Ganesha, Shiva, and Buddha on them. I turned them down in favor of tapestries with moons and stars and fairies on them. And one with fairly abstract patterns on it, as far as I can tell. I do this in my personal spiritual practice as well: I don't try to pray to or incorporate elements of other religions until I've spent a more significant time learning about them and actually understanding them. And even then, I won't say that I'm a "Buddhist" or a "Hindu" or a "shaman" or "two-spirited" or anything like that because those terms have meaning that I don't fully comprehend and don't think that I deserve to use.

I'm not Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Native American, or a member of any other of the cultures that make up the "melting pot" that new agers take from. So I will not take their symbols, their iconography, their style of dress, etc. At least, I don't when I'm aware of something being directly from one of those cultures.

My cultural style does seem to lend itself well to the description of "new age hippie." But I try to keep it focused on the elements that western culture has added to it, and avoid direct usurping of other cultures. My artwork is generic, abstract, or western, for the most part. Many elements of my style come from the psychedelic imagery of the 1960s and 70s. Rainbows and patterns and things that seem to move when you look at them. And I go for black lights, plastic glow-in-the-dark stars, legos, action figures, and posters of bands. My clothing is odd elements combined from many different things to create something that is, as far as I can see, rather unique.

I do have white privilege. I don't know whether I'm contributing to cultural appropriation or not, but I would guess that I am. In my quest to find my own culture, I'm struggling as best I can to find a path that does not step on the toes of others. I hope that I show people real respect, instead of fake western plastic white respect as from someone exoticizing people of color and their traditions.
pandora_parrot: (Default)
There have been some great articles up lately on the connection of Burning Man and white privilege.

This article is the first one I found on the topic, discussing a "Go Native!" rave party thing that was appropriating native american culture and imagery. Some local native american activists found out about it and apparently spent four hours lecturing the burners at their party.

Feministing put up an article also discussing the topic, with a link to one feminist's experience at Burning Man the year before.

Some really powerful stuff there. I worry sometimes about how much white privilege seeps into burner and hippie culture. Like, I've purchased some really pretty outfits from a store that sells Himalayan clothing to local new agers and stuff. Are we blending cultural expressions or just fetishizing that "eastern" look and displaying it because that's the trendy thing for new-agers, ravers, hippies, and burners?

Reading these articles, I'm struck with a sense that there has been little thought given to these issues in many of the circles that I run in. People randomly adopt religious iconography, language, and philosophy from various cultures without stopping to think about what that means... I do it too, really.

I have always felt that building my own spiritual practice by hodge-podging a bunch of practices together is the right thing to do for me. Similarly, I feel that I like the idea of borrowing from various cultures to create my own image and iconography. But I need to stop and think about the implications of this and the way that my white privilege plays into my actions.

What are the subconscious influences that result from my white privilege and how does that play into my use of the imagery and philosophies of other cultures? How can I avoid disrespecting, fetishizing, or further marginalizing non-white people in my personal actions, especially as they connect to being a new-age hippie burner type? Ultimately, I think more dialog is necessary. I personally know that *I* have a lot to learn about this, as I don't really understand much about the greater power struggles going on, my own personal contributions to these particular systems of oppression, etc. I'm ignorant on these topics and need to learn.
pandora_parrot: (Default)
OH right...

This article right here makes up a huge portion of my beliefs on a lot of things.

It's the back side of this poster on beauty.

Truly one of the most important messages that I've seen.

I love that website, btw. I think I ought to buy a few posters off of them.
pandora_parrot: (activism)
Want to see how silly BMI is? Check this picture set out.

I particularly love the pics of technically obese people like this:

Um. Yes. She definitely needs to lose some weight. Like OMG... Right....

Or this porker here:

Yup.... Most definitely obese. Totally. Absolutely.

Does anyone sane actually use this system?!
pandora_parrot: (save the world)
And this is why I am a "bad liberal": 5 Ways People Are Trying to Save the World (That Don't Work)

So make the world a better place: Don't recycle and don't buy organic.
pandora_parrot: (activism)
Right after writing the last entry I received a call from the HRC asking if I wanted to become a member. I had donated some money for their campaign against Proposition 8, so I'm now on their books.

I gave the nice young man that called a rather thorough talking to about the United ENDA and HRC's discrimination against transgender people. He was quite surprised to hear about all of it. He was even more stunned to hear that there were over a hundred GLBT organizations standing in opposition to HRC when it all went down. He only knows about HRC and GLAAD.

I think I educated the guy, some. At least, I hope he did. I have a feeling he'll be googling what happened some time soon.

Weird that both of these things happened today.
pandora_parrot: (activism)
The Angry Black Woman has a great post about why racism is FAR from over in this nation.

A great quote from it: Obama’s win only proves that he specifically had what it took to win this election. It wasn’t that any black person could have won, just as not any random woman could have won. McCain made the mistake of thinking that; of looking at people like labels.

Another one: While I’m hopeful that having a black president is one major step in that direction, it can also cause a setback as people throw “But we have a black president!” in our faces every time we bring up the deep-seated problems in this country.
pandora_parrot: (activism)
So... The supreme court of California decided that it is unconstitutional to have "separate but equal" definitions of unions for same-sex and different-sex couples. But now, marriage is only defined as between a man and a woman. So what's going to happen when this goes back to the supreme court?

Add your possibilities here, but here's a few I came up with:

The court decision said that California must either exit the business of sanctioning marriage, or it must grant same-sex couples the same rights as different-sex couples. Since the latter is no longer an option, will they have to do the former? Will California declare its marriage declaring powers null and void?

Perhaps they will say that the constitution of California is now self-contradictory. How will that be handled? Will they reject proposition 8 until another proposition is passed, this time to remove the equal protection clause in the constitution?

And what of the consequences of this election?

Will the Mormon church lose its tax exempt status because of how heavily it became involved in politics this year?

Will California decide to make out-of-state contributions to local causes illegal?

What will happen to all of the same-sex couples that have been married in the past few months?

This battle continues ever on. It will be very interesting to see what the next move is.


pandora_parrot: (Default)
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